I doubled checked the install, repeated the clean install actions ( I had not installed wow on a new pc build until a few days ago so it was a new install anyway) but checked the paths and login name and pwd, allowed the installer top do its stuff, I did notice that there was a msg saying update available went to setting did a repair and allowed the installer to again do its stuff, and all is well many thanks the wonderful familiar guide is here many thanks guys looking forward to grinding all these alts